Author Topic: Question about Dogs  (Read 10454 times)

cmill89

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Question about Dogs
« on: May 21, 2014, 10:18:40 PM »
I know you can defend yourself and a third party against dogs. How about defending your dog outside of your property? Say you're on the sidewalk and someone decides to attack your dog. Or someone kidnaps your dog, is it considered theft of property by texas law? I know some people seem to consider their dogs as their family rather than just an animal, or "property" Are you allowed to defend your dog from theft or assault? And to play devil's advocate, what if they ARE in fact on your property, just to assault or steal your dog, what are you allowed to do at that point as well? Within your home, or just outside in your yard?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

TexasLawShield

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Re: Question about Dogs
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2014, 04:21:39 PM »
Great question cmill89.

If someone is attempting to steal your dog, especially while you are around, then that is at least a theft, and may even constitute a robbery. Therefore, the legal justification for defending your property against theft and robbery would apply. Against a robbery you can use deadly force, and against a theft you can use deadly force if it takes place at night.

If someone is attempting to harm or injure your dog, unfortunately, the law is not as clear. Certainly, injuring a dog is a tragedy. However, the law does not specifically address what protections may be afforded to the dog.

We believe that you would be absolutely safe in using force against such a person, and then if the person responded to your use of force with deadly force, then you would be justified in using deadly force at that point. But we do not believe you should use deadly force until the individual attempts to use deadly force against you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

shorthairptr

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Re: Question about Dogs
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2014, 05:23:39 PM »
great question: what about in FLORIDA? Same questions...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

TexasLawShield

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Re: Question about Dogs
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2014, 09:52:57 AM »
shorthairptr,

In Florida, you may use force but not deadly force to protect your property from theft or unlawful criminal interference. That means that you may be justified in displaying your firearm but not discharging it. For example, if your dog is in the back yard, and someone tries to steal it you will probably not be justified in using deadly force, because that act constitutes a theft.

You may only use deadly force against a potential robbery (for example, walking your dog and somebody threatens you with force in an effort to steal your dog) or a burglary (someone breaks and enters into your home to steal your dog.)

Thanks for the great question.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

TFB

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Re: Question about Dogs
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2014, 05:38:34 PM »
Quote from: "TexasLawShield"

We believe that you would be absolutely safe in using force against such a person, and then if the person responded to your use of force with deadly force, then you would be justified in using deadly force at that point. But we do not believe you should use deadly force until the individual attempts to use deadly force against you.

This may open up a can of worms, but I'm curious about one potential situation. What happens if a SWAT team raids your house by mistake, entering by destroying your front door, throwing flash bangs, shooting your dog, and pointing guns at your children? I know there have been situations where someone was named justified in shooting a police officer that raided his house, but the law seems unclear. If a gang of 10 guys dressed in black, wearing masks and armor busted into my house ready to kill me i would likely try to fight back as hard as i could... what happens when they dont identify themselves as police? what if you can't hear them saying 'police' because they are discharging firearms, throwing flash bangs and scaring you? Is there a point when your reaction to starting engaging whatever person blows through your door and starts destroying crap isnt justified?

thanks, and i hope this isnt taken as some armchair wannabee kid question. It is a legitimate concern of mine in this time period of militarized police, wrongful raids, mistakes made on which house to raid, SOP's of shooting dogs and throwing flash bangs, etc. I'm not anti-cop or conspiracy theorist... I'm a rationalist who has a concern.

thanks again
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

TexasLawShield

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Re: Question about Dogs
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2014, 02:25:15 PM »
TFB,

The answer to your questions hinges on whether a reasonable person would use deadly force against a law enforcement officer entering their home. This is incredibly fact dependent and a jury would determine whether they believe you acted reasonably in using deadly force. Facts that would be considered in determining reasonableness may be: upon entering the house did one of the team members yell “Police,” were they wearing clothing with Police or SWAT indicia, were there flashing lights outside of the window that would have easily been seen by a person inside the home, etc.?

You will never be justified in using deadly force against a law enforcement officer if you knew or should have known they were a member of law enforcement. But, there may be surrounding facts that a jury would agree that you were justified in using deadly force because there were no facts available to you at the time that would have tipped you off that the individuals coming into your house were police or SWAT.

Thank you for your question.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

SafeT

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Re: Question about Dogs
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2014, 09:56:41 PM »
The problem there is " did one of the gang members yell "police"?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

mayfieldh

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Re: Question about Dogs
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 10:19:16 AM »
I can tell you one thing, if SWAT came into your home at night by mistake, you may as well put your hands in the air because if you did shoot one of them, you would never get out alive to go to trial anyway.  I don't think you can mistake SWAT officers with what they wear.  A regular criminal would hardly be dress in that attire..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

epontius

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Re: Question about Dogs
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2015, 11:39:21 AM »
This happened recently in Oklahoma.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/17/us/oklahoma-police-chief/

"Facts surrounding the case lead agents to believe the man was unaware it was officers who made entry."

They didn't have a warrant and were at the wrong house.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

MIO

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Re: Question about Dogs
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2015, 03:16:21 PM »
Quote from: "epontius"
They didn't have a warrant and were at the wrong house.
Right house for the name given by the caller but did NOT have a warrant as stated. As a LEO I'm waiting to see how this plays out with his complete disregard for the 4th. He is lucky to be alive and no charges should be filed on the homeowner no matter how big a pain and jerk he is and has been. That isn't an excuse for disregarding laws which lead to you being shot.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

epontius

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Re: Question about Dogs
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2015, 09:49:01 AM »
Quote from: "MIO"
Right house for the name given by the caller but did NOT have a warrant as stated.

From the article it seems that they searched the building the caller said had the explosives, then when that turned up nothing, went to the house where they "thought" the call originated. So they went to the wrong house as that wasn't the house it originated from.
Quote
While a bomb squad searched the building and didn't find any explosives, the chief and deputies went to the home where they thought the bomb threat originated, the OSBI said.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »