Author Topic: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.  (Read 4064 times)

higavin

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use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« on: September 23, 2015, 01:47:19 PM »
I spoke to a TLS Atty today who told me if I used my firearm to defend myself in a building posted with a 30.06 sign, TLS would defend me. However the contract in the member booklet contradicts that.

What is the correct answer?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

jaxfl

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2015, 02:15:25 PM »
Not a Lawyer here... but if I was on a jury ... I would have to convict. You seen the sign and disobeyed it... if you had stabbed or beat the attacker to death that is different than shooting in a no carry zone.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

ceejmo

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2015, 02:55:34 PM »
I'm not an attorney either but, I think they would defend the use of your firearm based on the section of the penal code below.  
Quote
Sec. 9.22. NECESSITY.  Conduct is justified if:
(1)  the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;
(2)  the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct;  and
(3)  a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

higavin

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2015, 04:16:03 PM »
Let me clarify my question. I am not speaking of defending my violating 30.06 but my use of a firearm in self defense while violating 30.06.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

higavin

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2015, 04:20:21 PM »
Quote from: "jaxfl"
Not a Lawyer here... but if I was on a jury ... I would have to convict. You seen the sign and disobeyed it... if you had stabbed or beat the attacker to death that is different than shooting in a no carry zone.

Convict of what? If was justified in defending myself, you'd ignore those facts and vote to convict because I should not have been armed?

I take it you believe gun free zones are a viable solution?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

jaxfl

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2015, 06:48:24 PM »
Quote from: "higavin"
Quote from: "jaxfl"
Not a Lawyer here... but if I was on a jury ... I would have to convict. You seen the sign and disobeyed it... if you had stabbed or beat the attacker to death that is different than shooting in a no carry zone.

Convict of what? If was justified in defending myself, you'd ignore those facts and vote to convict because I should not have been armed?

I take it you believe gun free zones are a viable solution?

Nope, what I'm saying is what probably 90% of non gun owners would say....

That it is your fault he is dead because you had the gun in a free zone.

If it happens in a government office or courthouse then you would automatically be arrested, just for having the weapon.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

Neighbor

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2015, 09:20:10 PM »
I don't know the answer to your question about TLS defending you, but I bet the facts surrounding the shooting would play a big part in what you were charged with - if anything. (i.e. if your action stopped an intended shooting rampage like in the posted theater in Colorado vs. your ex-wife's boyfriend searching you out and attacking you at the posted mall). I'm not advocating ignoring legal 30.06 signs, but i'm thinking the overall situation will make the difference in your charges. Even non-gun owners have some common sense. The saying, "better judged by 12 than carried by 6" came to mind also.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

jaxfl

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2015, 06:55:42 AM »
Quote from: "Neighbor"
I don't know the answer to your question about TLS defending you, but I bet the facts surrounding the shooting would play a big part in what you were charged with - if anything. (i.e. if your action stopped an intended shooting rampage like in the posted theater in Colorado vs. your ex-wife's boyfriend searching you out and attacking you at the posted mall). I'm not advocating ignoring legal 30.06 signs, but i'm thinking the overall situation will make the difference in your charges. Even non-gun owners have some common sense. The saying, "better judged by 12 than carried by 6" came to mind also.


I can't find the "LIKE BUTTON"

 :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

CongoHarry

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2015, 10:30:20 AM »
Not an attorney either.  I did, however, portray Clarence Darrow in my college production of "Inherit the Wind." Ahem...how about this: you will be charged with a 30.06 violation.  Accordingly, TLS will disavow you.  As for the shooting itself, it all depends on the specifics.  Regardless, TLS don't know you.  You're on your own.  Up the creek.  Toast.  What do I win?  What say you TLS?
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Neighbor

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 05:49:36 PM »
CongoHarry may very well be right in that part about if you are charged with a 30.06 violation the TLS might not be "by your side." I don't see, however, that this makes you toast necessarily - again depends on the specifics. TLS certainly aren't the only lawyers out there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

switch

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2015, 06:00:43 PM »
Where did you read they will NOT defend you?

You generally can count on TLS.  It is hard to lose their protection.  OTOH, I understand their 'agreement' says they will not defend you for taking a gun where it is prohibited.  I suspect they still will, at least try to get some lesser charge.
???
Remember, starting in January, carrying past a 30.06/07 sign will drop to a Class C. :)  Will not affect your license.

If you are carrying in a 30.06 zone and get in a justified shooting, TLS will represent you on the shooting.  Actually, if it is truly justified, I doubt if you will be charged for violating 30.06.

I think you are reading into the agreement what is not intended.  I know, they will not represent you if you are violating the law when you use your weapon.  I know, it specifically excludes minor traffic law violations.  IE.  you are speeding, get into a road rage incident,.... They will still represent you.

If you are robbing a bank, they will not.

Carrying in a school, court, past a 30.06 sign? Technically, illegal.  If you have to shoot, you should be ok.  They will represent you.  If it's a questionable shooting?  You picked a fight w/the bartender because he was hitting on your wife?  Wound us shooting him or a bouncer?  The Castle law (do not have to retreat) would not apply.  You did not have a legal right to be there (with a gun), you were the aggressor, and you were breaking the law.  You have violated all three exceptions to "No Duty To Retreat'.  I beleive they will represent you, but you have tied their hands.  I am not sure how effective they will be. :(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

Neighbor

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2015, 07:20:34 PM »
Sounds good to me - hope you're right Switch.
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Katfish

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2015, 06:11:01 PM »
jdt44 - I believe if you scroll downwards just a few messages You'll find that TLS responds to all inquiries posted in this section of the forums.

I have no way of knowing but it's my bet that a TLS rep is not monitoring these forums 24/7 - IMHO we posters need to exercise a bit of PATIENCE and responses will be posted.......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

jaxfl

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2015, 08:02:07 AM »
Quote from: "higavin"
Do you think more than 6 plus days is enough time to get an answer?


I would say that any question asked .... should be answered within 24 hours.... I guess they are too busy... :roll:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

jdt44

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Re: use of a firearm in a building with a 30.06 sign posted.
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2015, 12:22:30 PM »
The TLS literature I received explicitly states that we are covered if we have to use our firearm in a location we are legally permitted to carry it. The only way I can interpret that is if I cross into a 30.06 posted area with a handgun and have to use it they will not cover defense of that use. Another person reports they verbally told him the would defend such a case. Clarification of this this very important and I do not believe waiting a week for a reply is unreasonable. Everyone's opinion is simply not helpful when and if something gets down to the nut cutting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »