State Trooper Keeps Ammo After Stop...!

[mayfieldh]

I was just told by one of my friends who have CHL that a trooper stopped him last night after he was leaving from a friend's house from watching the game last night.  He gave his license and CHL to trooper and after trooper disarmed him, when he was finish with writing him the ticket, he unloaded his magazine and kept his ammo.  When ask why he was keeping ammo the trooper told him that he wasn't giving him the ammo back because he didn't have to.  

Does the trooper have the rights to do this.  Does that mean that if I get stopped that I might also have my ammo taken away from me.  Ammo is not cheap to be giving it away.

[TexasLawShield]

Great question, mayfieldh.

During a traffic stop, a police officer may temporarily disarm a person, and they can basically do whatever they want with the gun - unload it, take the magazine out; they can basically tear it apart.

However, on completion of the stop, all of your items must be given back to you. The police officer should have returned the ammunition to your friend.

Your friend may want to think about calling the police department and filing an internal affairs complaint with a request to get his ammunition back.

Hope that helps.

[AbnRgr11B2V]

This seems to be a problem directly related to the Texas Department of Public Safety. I believe they think they have found a loophole in the law and intend to use it until someone slaps their hand - Per Texas code 411.206, 411.207 and the "Book" Texas Gun Law Armed and Educated 2016-2017 pg 224.

Just  this year, I was involved in a serious automobile accident while armed. My first response when the firefighter pried open the door was "I'm armed and I have a permit". It was not "I'm hurt" or "call my wife" - I was more concerned about the legality of the situation than my physical injuries. They were very understanding as I was extricated from my truck and
moved to the ambulance. As I'm getting assessed and prepared for transport, I continued to state that I was armed and needed to transfer my weapon to someone. I had this terrible fear that all of a sudden someone would shout "he's got a gun" and get dumped out of the stretcher, cuffed and get transported to jail instead of the hospital. The captain of the fire department graciously took my .38 and told me he would hand it over to the state trooper when he arrived. Only then did I feel that I had done everything right and could focus on dealing with the injuries.

Once at the hospital, a city police officer spoke with me about my weapon and that once the trooper had finished the accident investigation, "he would bring the weapon to the hospital and secure it in the city police officers safe". He said that "when you are discharged from the hospital, I will return the weapon to you". After a multitude of CT scans, x-rays, exams, etc. I was discharged that evening. My weapon was returned to me as stated above BUT unloaded and without the rounds.

This does bother me since, in effect, the state trooper has (at the time) rendered me defenseless. Regardless of the circumstances (pulled over and ticketed or a routine questioning without charge, etc.), I can be disarmed, have my weapon returned unloaded and must either return home to reload my weapon or carry a box of ammo in my vehicle for each time I'm stopped.

By the way, Federal Hydrashock rounds are not cheap.

[switch]

You are lucky.  My wife was in an accident.  The Dallas Sheriff's department 'secured' her gun.  The refused to release it to my ( a LTC instructor), my wife had to call and they had to run a background check before they release it.  Unfortunately, now, when she calls, they never return her call.

[yabu]

Seems to me there is an attitude problem with many police officers when it comes to citizens carrying guns.  I remember when the concealed carry law was being debated 20yrs ago.  Practically every police department in the state was opposed to it.  Now after 20yrs they still don't like citizens carrying guns.  Seems like when you get stopped the police go out of their way (many of them anyway) to frustrate your right to carry.  I don't know if this will ever change.

[siggaltx]

Wow! This is disturbing! These police officers are, essentially, stealing ammunition from legal gun owners. My question is: what happens to that ammunition after it is taken from citizens? Do the police/sheriff offices have stockpiles of "confiscated" ammunition? We need to ask these entities what is being done with all this ammo! Did any of you ask? I would love to hear the answer. This makes me angry!

[Neighbor]

This surprises me. I've been stopped 3 times in the 8 years I've had my CCL (1 by local and 2 by DPS) and every time it went totally fine. None of the officers disarmed me or seemed to have a problem with me being armed. One officer asked where the weapon was and when I told him "my left hip", he just said please keep your hands away from that area.

[mayfieldh]

Maybe TLS should ask one of the State Troopers to attend one of the seminars so we can ask why some officers do this and what do they do with the Ammo.

[mayfieldh]

I have never been stopped before since I have had my CHL.  I guess it depends on who you are for them to decide what they want to do.  My friend was 42 years of age, black male driving a red convertible with the top down.  Don't know if that means anything to them or not.  In the past when I did get stopped, the officers were nice to me but I didn't have a CHL at that time and I think I was around 52 years of age.

[w5pl]

I suppose everyone's milage might vary but I suspect that the manner in which you carry yourself and whether or not it promotes a feeling of alarm or ease on the part of the officer involved would in large part determine your experience.  I have carried concealed since the TX law went into effect and in that roughly 20 year period have been stopped 3 or 4 times in traffic stops.  My experience has always been positive, of course I always perform a few simple things during the stop designed to relieve any anxieties on the part of the officer.  Stopping a car especially at night is one of the more intense activities that officer might perform that shift.  I always position the car to shield the officer from oncoming traffic, roll down all windows on the side being approached, turn on the interior lights, place my hands in plain sight on top of the steering wheel.  Only after communicating with the officer and with him apprised of any activities I anticipate performing do I proceed to move in any fashion.  Of all of those stops I might have received one citation and never had any negative interactions.  I have never been disarmed during any stop.  A little understanding of the stress inducers on both sides and common sense go a long way in determining the outcomes in these sort of situations.

[Albannach]

I would politely ask for a receipt for the ammunition. If you are given one. You can use it to reclaim your property. If the trooper refuses to give you a receipt, know that if he intends to permanently deprive you of your ammunition, it essentially amounts to theft. That is especially true if he does not tag and secure it as evidence or otherwise log it as property that can be tracked and claimed.

Depending on how much of a fuss you want to raise you have some options. 1) Write to the Director of DPS in Austin and ask why the ammunition was confiscated. In the same letter make an open records request for a copy of the DPS policy on confiscation of ammunition from CHL license holders. (If you make an open records request they have 10 days to respond to you or tell you why it will take more than 10 days to respond). Believe me, that will start ripples running down the chain of command all the way to the trooper who stopped you. 2) If you know an attorney who would be wiling to write a letter on your behalf, (read not charge you a great deal for the service), a letter from an attorney would be more compelling than one from you. 3) Get the media involved. Most major television stations have an investigative reporter on staff. They love that sort of story and the police don't like bad publicity. Now... a word of caution...

Depending on where you live, if you pursue options 1 or 3 you might find yourself subject to unwanted and ongoing scrutiny by not only the trooper who stopped you but also his colleagues. Be aware that the Texas Uniform Traffic Act is full of violations that most drivers never heard of. You can be ticketed for having dirty license plates, for example.  You can be ticketed for "driving too fast for weather conditions" - whatever that means.  Also know that DPS toopers are very clannish. Make one mad at you and every tooper in your county may have your license plate number taped to the dashboard of his/her patrol car. That's likely to be less of a problem in an urban county than a rural one. 

I wouldn't let them get away with stealing my ammunition but I would also consider which approach I would use to get it back to ensure that I wasn't creating more trouble than it is worth.

[KSMike]

This must be a thing in Texas... I am a full time police officer in Kansas. I have never in my 24 years of working the streets taken ammunition from a weapon that was being carried in compliance with the laws of Kansas. There is NO valid reason whatsoever for any law enforcement officer to keep ammunition from a contact with a driver unless the driver is going to the hospital or the jail. In either situation, the weapon, holster, and ammunition are placed in property at our police HQs as "safekeeping".... the legal owner of the weapon can then recover it upon release from the hospital... if they were arrested for a crime... a bit different. It all depends on what crime they were charged with...