Author Topic: New Open Carry  (Read 18973 times)

LucasMcCain

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2016, 04:07:38 PM »
LucasMcCain, just speculation on my part, but five will get you ten that the responsible party at Texas Trust Credit Union mistakenly thinks that the new 30.07 sign is an upgrade replacement to the 30.06 sign and covers both open and concealed carry.

The same thought occurred to me. I'm certainly not going to educate them, though.

Also, what if a business doesn't have a sign properly worded or installed, what do you do?

I know there are those that will disagree with me on this. Personally, if I see a sign that is at least close to compliant, I figure it was effective enough because I saw it and I know what it means. That said, I won't take chances with 30.07 signs, but 30.06 signs will be a case by case judgment call on my part. The most important thing, I think, is that if you are verbally told to leave that you do so immediately. Not doing so is what can get you in big time trouble.

As always, I am not a lawyer.

texasisbest

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2016, 04:28:55 PM »
There are many questions about the recent open carry law. What will you do as a law abiding citizen if you enter a business that has not posted a 30.07 sign and someone in the store asks you if you are licensed to carry?

This from Texas Law Shield...
Under section 411.205 of the Government Code, a license holder is only required to provide their license to a magistrate or a peace officer. However, even though you will not be able to demand the production of a license, the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner can provide notice that entry on the property with a handgun is prohibited. TPC 30.06, 30.07.

If someone ask me to show them my license, I will gladly show them. There will be those a%#holes that will challenge the authority and that will just make it worse for those that choose to act with common sense

yabu

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2016, 07:32:25 AM »
I guess everybody will have their own approach to this situation.  I tend not to go where I'm not welcome - I'm not a confrontational kind of person.  If I am carrying my weapon concealed (which is always) and I see a sign saying guns are not allowed at a given business I'm not going to carry past that sign even when it does not meet the legal requirements of the law.  Others will not agree with me here and ignore a sign that is not strictly legal.  But even an incorrect sign conveys a message and I can't pretend I didn't know that the management didn't want guns on their premises.  So I'm not going to carry where I know a certain business doesn't want guns on their premises.  I can't justify showing disrespect for their wishes.  I can and will, however, take my business elsewhere. 

Neighbor

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2016, 05:45:06 PM »
I'm not quite a picky as Yabu. Assuming I see it, I won't pass a sign that appears close to a 30.06 sign in wording even if it isn't the right size or may not be obvious.
I will, however, walk right by a gunbuster sign (gun with red circle and slash through it) or just a sign saying "no guns" as I don't consider them directed toward licensed concealed carry folks. Also the signs that are required at the entrances of stores that sell beer here in Texas (The unlicensed possession of a firearm in this ....) don't affect me - I am licensed.
I only carry concealed but I suspect if I was open carrying, I would be inclined to be more like Yabu as I don't like confrontation either :) Not much chance of a confrontation when concealed.

Neighbor

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2016, 10:31:17 PM »
Saw my 1st 30.07 tonight at restaurant in Longview. First thing I noticed as I entered was a one line sign on the right glass door that said, "concealed carry welcome" and I thought, "wish we could see more of these." Then as the left door opened I caught a glimpse of what initially looked like a 30.06 (white letters on clear background so not very conspicous) and had to look closer. It was actually a full sized 30.07 sign and appeared legal to me with the possible issue of visibility. I'm partial to concealed carry so no need to make any changes. :)

cacton

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2016, 06:48:55 AM »
It's already concerning to me to see the number of new 30.06 and 30.07 signs popping up as a knee jerk. None of the gas station. Near my house had either sign. Now they all have both. I'm a member of a site that I get notified when someone reports either sign. My email is gething overloaded with the reports. At this rate almost the entire city of houston area will be gun free zones

Neighbor

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2016, 08:48:27 PM »
Haven't seen any signs at gas stations yet. I assume they are on doors going in so you can still gas up? I hope don't see these in NE Tx. Is is mostly one brand or across the board stations?

Colonel

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2016, 04:06:44 AM »
Let me bet that it was a HEB store. I shop at the HEB at US281 and Evans Rd. in San Antonio. Their sign is exactly what you describe. It is hidden at the bottom of a window next to the outside trash can. Printing is a light grey on smoked glass and completely washes out when there is direct sunlight on the glass. One would think that a company that made such a big deal on the news would at least have the smarts to get the signage correct.

BK

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2016, 06:10:32 PM »
At Kroger today signs taped waist to chest high on both the outside and the inside of the automatic sliding entrance door:

- NOTICE -

IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON TO
CARRY A WEAPON ON THIS PREMISES
UNLESS THE WEAPON IS A
HANDGUN AND THE PERSON IS
LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H,
CHAPTER 411 OF THE GOVERNMENT
CODE.

Black print on white 8-1/2 x 11 printer paper.

The "NOTICE" is about one inch tall font.

The remainder is about half-inch font.

I think they should replace their in-house counsel with someone who is competent, assuming they could find someone who is competent.

Neighbor

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2016, 08:40:14 PM »
Is this Kroger sign really a bad thing? As I understand this, they are basically saying those with a LTC are welcome, right?

Colonel

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2016, 10:00:39 PM »
That sign is the one that needs to replace 30.06 and 30.07 signs everywhere. Kroger is sending a clear message to everyone that they support open and concealed carry. If you are not licensed (i.e. vetted by the state) Kroger does not want you carrying in their stores. Walmart and CVS only have signs like that (no 30.06 or 30.07 signs) which state that unlicensed carry in their store is a felony.

yabu

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2016, 04:54:27 AM »
I think all Krogers have that sign on their front doors.  I have no problem with a sign like that.  Basically, all they are doing is quoting the law.  If you are not licensed it's illegal to carry a gun.  I think we all knew that.   ;)

kmedcalf

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2016, 09:04:35 AM »
BK, That sign is the TABC "Blue" sign, and is required on any establishment that sells alcohol for off-premises consumption, and those that sell for on-premises consumption if their alcohol sales are less than 51% of their revenue.

The previous version of this sign was "The Unlicensed possession...".

You'll see this sign at convenience stores, gas stations, liquor stores, WalMart, Target, etc...anyplace that sells alcohol.

BK

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2016, 02:50:29 PM »
kmedcalf, thanks for the info. I didn't know that.

The sign referenced is brand new to this particular Kroger.

The sign says that it is unlawful to carry a weapon in the store unless the weapon is a handgun and the carrier is LTC.

So then, what about a rifle or shotgun weapon in Kroger? Is it contrary to the TACB statutes or whatever to carry a rifle or shotgun in such an establishment that sells alcohol for off-premises consumption?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 02:52:12 PM by BK »

kmedcalf

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Re: New Open Carry
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2016, 08:49:11 AM »
Since open carry of long guns is legal in Texas, this is a murky area for me (I don't have any long guns). As for the TABC code, if the store allows a weapon (including long guns, handgun, etc) they can lose their liquor license, but I'm not sure if the person carrying a long gun actually would face any charges on that - perhaps a good question for the Ask the Lawyers section.

Here's Subchapter C, Section 11.61(e) of the TABC code:
Quote
Except as provided by Subsection (f) or (i), the commission or administrator shall cancel an original or renewal permit if it is found, after notice and hearing, that the permittee knowingly allowed a person to possess a firearm in a building on the licensed premises.

This subsection does not apply to a person:
   (1) who holds a security officer commission issued under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, if:
      (A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as a security officer;
      (B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and
      (C) the weapon is in plain view;
   (2) who is a peace officer;
   (3) who is a permittee or an employee of a permittee if the person is supervising the operation of the premises; or
   (4) who possesses a handgun the person is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, unless the person is on the premises of a business described by Section 46.035(b)(1), Penal Code.

Note that the reference to 46.035(b)(1) is the 51% establishment.