Author Topic: Failed to ID  (Read 5970 times)

John Fernandez

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Failed to ID
« on: December 28, 2015, 09:24:22 AM »
After watching the local open carry informational meetings, I see where the threat of arrest for failure to ID has been mentioned. I understand that the law say's you must provide your LTC and Identification when carrying; I thought the penalty was removed. What am I missing that would get you arrested for failure to identify?

ceejmo

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2015, 09:47:29 AM »
Not a lawyer but, the new law requires you to show your permit when asked to do so by LEOs.

Hizzoner

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2015, 10:49:22 AM »
But does law enforcement have a right to ask for ID for no reason other than the fact that you are open carrying?

timsatx

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2015, 11:53:54 PM »
I was at one of the recent meetings. I think it was Capt. Anderson from the SAPD. I don't currently have access to looking up the statutes that address this issue but basically there is the presumption that you are suspected to be carrying illegally so therefore they have the right to approach you and establish wether you are or are not carrying legally. That was one of the things that peace officers fought for as it was originally written that they did not have the right to do it. It is believed that the bill would have never gotten to the governor's desk had that provision not been removed.

Hizzoner

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2015, 06:28:35 AM »
So, basically "Guilty until proven innocent".

Wow.

timsatx

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2015, 08:06:30 AM »
Sec. 411.205.  REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE.  If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.


Hizzoner

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2015, 09:09:16 AM »
So, basically, the 4th Amendment has been revoked for CHL holders.  Nice

ceejmo

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2015, 12:24:47 PM »
It is generally against the law to open carry a pistol. It may only be dode with a permit.
Since there are more people without a LTC than there are with a LTC the probability that a person is breaking the law is higher than the probability of the person having a permit. Therefor a law enforcement officer could have reasonable suspicion that the person with the openly carried weapon is committing a crime.

Hizzoner

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2015, 02:01:38 PM »
I don't guess you can tell that I am a Constitutional Carry advocate can you? LOL

MIO

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2015, 02:22:17 PM »
So, basically "Guilty until proven innocent".

Wow.
Asking for an ID is not saying your guilty of anything. Being pro constitutional carry is not wrong either. If it is I'm wrong as because I believe in it. Since you enjoy carrying, have strong feelings and wish to be vocal why not join the local reserve force and see both sides so you can be a more positive influence in making changes? When I was on the streets I made contact with tons of people with no negative outcome even after seeing who I was talking to. Several became friends. There are reasons for it. It's not a "papers please" event nor is it new. If you become a LEO then you can bring out that inner sheepdog and make sure you don't violate their 4th or any other constitutional right you value while accomplishing the job.

TexasLawShield

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2015, 04:23:02 PM »
John Fernandez,

You are correct that there is no legal penalty if you fail to present your LTC. However, the law requires that a person be in possession of their LTC at all times they are carrying a concealed handgun or a handgun visible in a shoulder or belt holster. If an LTC holder is not carrying (or refuses to show) their license,  this may subject them to arrest for unlawfully carrying a weapon.

As for when an officer can ask to see your license, there was a proposed amendment that would have prohibited a police officer from detaining and requesting ID from a person based solely on the officer’s observation of the person carrying a handgun in a shoulder or belt holster, but the amendment did not pass. Therefore, it appears that if a police officer has reasonable suspicion that the person is violating 46.02, they can stop and investigate further to see if the person is exempt under 46.15.

Thank you for your question.

yabu

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2015, 09:24:04 AM »
So, basically, the 4th Amendment has been revoked for CHL holders.  Nice
The 4th amend deals with "unreasonable" searches.  If you are carrying openly, I don't see anything unreasonable about a peace officer making sure you are doing so legally.  After all, carrying a firearm is illegal under 46.02 unless you have a license exempting you from that law.  And if you do refuse to show your license then the officer has a right to assume you don't have one and arrest you under 46.02.  The same is true if you refuse to show your driver's license during a traffic stop.  In that case the officer can reasonably assume you don't have one and cite you for driving without a license.  Frankly, I don't understand why some people go out of their way to make life hard.  Why turn a reasonable request by an officer into a confrontation?  Just show your license, satisfy the officer and go about your business. 

Katfish

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2015, 10:02:14 AM »
So, basically, the 4th Amendment has been revoked for CHL holders.  Nice
The 4th amend deals with "unreasonable" searches.  If you are carrying openly, I don't see anything unreasonable about a peace officer making sure you are doing so legally.  After all, carrying a firearm is illegal under 46.02 unless you have a license exempting you from that law.  And if you do refuse to show your license then the officer has a right to assume you don't have one and arrest you under 46.02.  The same is true if you refuse to show your driver's license during a traffic stop.  In that case the officer can reasonably assume you don't have one and cite you for driving without a license.  Frankly, I don't understand why some people go out of their way to make life hard.  Why turn a reasonable request by an officer into a confrontation? Just show your license, satisfy the officer and go about your business.

Well SAID!
*from the "if Ya don't WANT none don't START none" department...................

timsatx

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2016, 12:45:38 AM »
Here in San Antonio, SAPD Chief McManus said "There probably won't be any need to worry about that in San Antonio, though. Police Chief William McManus said San Antonio officers won't stop you just for openly carrying a gun but he said officers do have the right to ask for your weapon if they stop you and feel unsafe."

mayfieldh

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Re: Failed to ID
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2016, 01:16:59 PM »


[/quote]
The 4th amend deals with "unreasonable" searches.  If you are carrying openly, I don't see anything unreasonable about a peace officer making sure you are doing so legally.  After all, carrying a firearm is illegal under 46.02 unless you have a license exempting you from that law.  And if you do refuse to show your license then the officer has a right to assume you don't have one and arrest you under 46.02.  The same is true if you refuse to show your driver's license during a traffic stop.  In that case the officer can reasonably assume you don't have one and cite you for driving without a license.  Frankly, I don't understand why some people go out of their way to make life hard.  Why turn a reasonable request by an officer into a confrontation?  Just show your license, satisfy the officer and go about your business.
[/quote]

Thanks YABU, I was about to say the same thing until I read your post.  I use to be a Sheriff Deputy and I know what police officers have to deal with when they see someone carrying a gun. 

It looks like lots of folks are thinking more about their 4th amend rights rather than their safety and the safety of others.  As you said, officers have NO idea if you have a Driver's License or a LTC unless he ask.  If you are legal, just show it and move on about your business..

Thanks for your post...