Author Topic: LEOSA vs 30.06 and 51%  (Read 7515 times)

Rockriver

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LEOSA vs 30.06 and 51%
« on: May 14, 2016, 12:15:22 AM »
I have questions about whether retired LEOs can carry concealed under LEOSA into areas in Texas where LTC carry is prohibited.

In the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, 18 USC 926C, paragraphs (b)(1) and (2) seem to point towards a "no" answer, basically stating that LEOSA doesn't trump state laws that prohibit firearms in specific areas.

However, Texas Penal Code Sec. 30.06(a) and 46.035 both begin with the specific words "A license holder...", referring to LTC holders.  Additionally, TPC 46.15(a) states that "46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to" (5) a “qualified retired law enforcement officer." 

As a “qualified retired law enforcement officer” who carries concealed under LEOSA, could I legally carry concealed into 30.06 locations, as well those listed in 46.035 (bars, jails, etc.) and 46.03 (polling places, racetracks, etc)?  I am not suggesting that this would be a good idea!
 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 10:29:38 AM by Rockriver »

TexasLawShield

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Re: LEOSA vs 30.06 and 51%
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2016, 02:45:49 PM »
Rockriver,

Your interpretation of the law is correct. In Texas, as long as you comply with 46.15(a)(5)(a) which provides for someone who is properly qualified under LEOSA, you will be exempt from both 46.02 and 46.03. You may carry regardless of those prohibitions. This is true even if you possess a license to carry.


Rockriver

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Re: LEOSA vs 30.06 and 51%
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2016, 01:09:30 AM »
I just attended a TLS Seminar and the program attorney's opinion was that I cannot legally carry concealed into an area posted under 30.06.  This seems to conflict with the advice I received earlier in this forum as well as what I was told during a phone conversation with another TLS attorney.

The seminar attorney's focus was on the specific language in 18 USC 926C, which states:
(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that -
(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property...

Other legal opinions I have received have stated that Texas Penal Code, Sec. 30.06, "Trespass by License Holder with a Concealed Handgun", is specifically directed at license holders and accordingly doesn't apply to those carrying under LEOSA as no state law is being superseded.

So, under LEOSA, can I legally carry concealed into a convenience store posted with a 30.06 sign?

TexasLawShield

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Re: LEOSA vs 30.06 and 51%
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2016, 04:18:53 PM »
Rockriver,

We apologize for the confusion. As for the information above, this still stands true. In Texas, as long as you comply with 46.15(a)(5)(a) which provides for someone who is properly qualified under LEOSA, you will be exempt from both 46.02 and 46.03. You may carry regardless of those prohibitions. This is true even if you possess a license to carry.

As for 30.06 and 30.07, if someone is carrying pursuant to LEOSA and does not possess a Texas LTC, then there is an argument that 30.06 and 30.07 cannot apply to them as they do not possess a LTC. That being said, the language provided in 18USC 926C(b)(1) would indicate that criminal trespass under Texas Penal Code 30.05 is applicable to someone carrying pursuant to LEOSA. Although you can argue 30.06 and 30.07 do not apply, you will run the risk of being charged under 30.05 if you carry into a location where a private property owner has expressed a desire to keep firearms out.

Rockriver

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Re: LEOSA vs 30.06 and 51%
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2016, 01:59:53 PM »
I understand that few or no precedents exist regarding these specific issues in Texas.  Therefore, I if choose to carry into a 30.06 area I am actually testing my rights under LEOSA rather than acting under established case law.  No thanks.

Much more common than 30.06 and 30.07 signage are the ones in establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and which state "The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $10,000", followed by the TABC address and phone number.

If I did not have a LTC, yet was carrying under LEOSA into a grocery store that displayed the TABC sign, would I be considered unlicensed and therefore commiting a felony?

This is all rather confusing.  I realize individuals carrying under LEOSA comprise just a tiny percentage of all Texans carrying concealed, but some educated guidance on this issue is needed.  The only decent source of reliable information I have found nationwide is Sheepdog Academy, but they don't address individual state issues.  A TLS seminar focusing on LEOSA and Texas law would be welcomed.

TexasLawShield

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Re: LEOSA vs 30.06 and 51%
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2016, 02:52:56 PM »
Rockriver,

The sign you are describing refers to the law found in Penal Code 46.02(c). Thus, a person who is properly carrying under LEOSA will be exempt.

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrotOver

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Re: LEOSA vs 30.06 and 51%
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2017, 05:10:44 PM »
Hello I just registered and noticed that you had a few questions regarding LEOSA, did you finally get some of those questions answered, I have been retired Fed, since 2007 and have carried under LEOSA to present, throughout the U.S. and have not had one issue to date. if I can be of help let me know. In Texas as the "Ask the Lawyers" have stated certain rules regulation, and state laws do not apply to LEOSA and we retain SOME of our peace officer exceptions.   
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 05:29:33 PM by WhiskeyTangoFoxtrotOver »

Rockriver

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Re: LEOSA vs 30.06 and 51%
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2017, 06:46:40 PM »
Hello WTF Over,

I'm also a retired fed (2008).  My original concern was whether or not I could carry past a 30.06 sign.  After speaking to and averaging out the answers from five lawyers, including a former FBI agent/regional counsel, the general response I am hearing starts with "Well, you could make a case for...".  I'm not interested in spending any more time in a courtroom.

I am a bit surprised at the lack of knowledge of LEOSA among the state and local guys, who I am most likely to encounter.  With the exception of firearms/range officers, most of them seem to know little or nothing about 19USC926(b) and (c).  Fortunately, this is not a big issue in gun-friendly Texas, whereas in New York you might have some 'splaining to do.