Author Topic: New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article  (Read 20073 times)

majusa

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article
« on: August 06, 2016, 05:56:38 PM »
NRA article 07/22/16 on Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC).
Could someone please explain to me if this latest gun control measure as reported at NRA site (Just in Time for His Party’s Convention, Obama Administration Releases Latest Executive Gun Control) applies to me as a common gun owner?  The way I understand the article, it states that if anyone makes modifications to a personal firearm that improves the accuracy of that firearm (even adding a scope to a rifle), then that person MUST register as a manufacturer and pay a 2,500 dollar fee each year.  This article changed the definitions of many terms.  Any drilling, milling, cutting done to a stock, barrel, or other gun part mandates registration and fee payment. 
Document is here.  https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/documents/ITARRegReqFirearmsManufacturers.pdf

As a Texas Law Shield subscriber for two years, if in fact this article is true and I have made modifications to any of my firearms, then would Texas Law Shield still provide services should I ever use one of my firearms in a defense situation?

Katfish

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2016, 11:42:57 PM »
from the link You posted:


1. Registration not Required
Not Manufacturing:  In response to questions from persons engaged in the  business of gunsmithing, DDTC  has  found  in  specific cases that
ITAR registration is not required because  the  following activities do not meet the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning of “manufacturing” that DDTC employs in implementing the ITAR and, therefore, do not constitute “manufacturing” for ITAR purposes: 
a)Occasional assembly of firearm parts and kits that do not require cutting, drilling, or machining;

b)Firearm repairs involving one for-one drop-in replacement parts that do not require any cutting, drilling, or machining for installation;

c)Repairs involving replacement parts that do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or other aspects of firearm operation;

d)Hydrographic paint or Cerakote application or bluing treatments for a firearm;

e) Attachment of accessories  to a completed firearm without drilling, cutting, or machining — such as attaching
a scope, sling, or light to existing mounts or hooks, or attaching a flash suppressor, sound suppressor, muzzle brake, or similar item to a
pre -threaded muzzle;

f) Cosmetic  additions and  alterations  (including  engraving) that do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or other aspects of
firearm operation beyond  it's original capabilities;

g)Machining new dovetails or drilling and tapping new holes for the installation of sights which do not improve the accuracy or operation of  the firearm beyond its original capabilities;

and

h)Manual loading or reloading of ammunition of .50 caliber or smaller.

Activities  limited to the domestic sale or resale of firearms, the occasional  assembly  of
firearms  without  drilling,  cutting,  or  machining,  and/or  specific  gunsmithing activities that
do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or operations of the firearm beyond its original capabilities
(as  described  aboveare  not  manufacturing  within  the  context  of  the  ITAR
If  you  are  not  manufacturing, exporting,  temporarily  importing or brokering defense
articles or services, you are not required to register with DDTC.

majusa

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2016, 07:03:29 AM »
Thanks for the reply.  However, the main reason I posted is because now it seems so easy to be in possession of an illegal firearm according to the DDTC. It is so easy to make changes to a firearm that improve the accuracy or operation of  the firearm beyond its original capabilities with only minor changes. 
It's not that hard.  The NRA original article touched on the fact that a good scope is an accessory that can be added without drilling or machining, yet it  improves the accuracy or operation of  the firearm beyond its original capabilities.  Therefore, it could be deemed to be illegal.  No doubt about it.  And, I have known of some who have machined new dovetails and/or drilled holes in order to add high-end scopes.  Once again, it is not that hard.
Or how about simply adding a good set of 'night sights' to your handgun.  Just like that you have improved the firearm operation beyond it's original capabilities. And this appears to be illegal according to what the NRA article said.
Also mentioned in the ITAR registration summary requiring registration is...
b) Modifications to a firearm that change round capacity.
This is not talking about machining or making any cuts to the breech or any other part of a firearm. 
It sounds like they are saying, simply adding a higher round magazine to a firearm suddenly makes it illegal if you don't register and pay the fee.
I am an old-timer.  From the time I was a boy, I have known people who made changes to their personal firearms that included increased magazine capacity, drilling, cutting, machining and so forth. All of these actions fell under the heading of 'gunsmithing'.  Now, this all seems to be illegal.  The new information has essentially changed 'gunsmithing' to 'manufacturing' and made it illegal--some of it anyway.  For example, the ITAR information seems to state,

1. Installing a higher capacity magazine in a firearm is illegal.  (No machining required)
You can buy magazines that are the same capacity as the ones that came with the firearm with no problem.
2. Installing a scope on a rifle that improves accuracy beyond it's original capabilities is illegal. (No machining required)
The information states that you can drill/tap holes and you can machine dovetails in order to mount a scope.  BUT, that scope can not improve the accuracy or operation of the firearm beyond its original capabilities. ??
3. Installing night sights on a handgun that improves accuracy beyond it's original capabilities is illegal.  (No machining required)
4. Dropping in an after market threaded barrel on a handgun that did not come with a threaded barrel. (No machining required)
5. Any other cutting/machining done to a firearm is illegal. (All can easily be performed in a home shop)
Since this all appears to be illegal, then will Texas Law Shield still provide services if a member uses a questionable firearm (self installed night sights OR any other modification) in which he/she has not registered with the DDTC and paid the 2,250.00 fee?  Why?  Because Texas Law Shield states that the member must not be violating any laws at the time of the shooting.

Katfish

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2016, 08:00:32 AM »
majusa - just MY opinion

A scope or aftermarket sights do NOT improve the WEAPON beyond it's original capabilities - either of these "might" improve YOUR ability to put rounds on target. The weapon still shoots the same as when it was manufactured.

unless some lawyer proves me wrong that is my story and I'm sticking to it

majusa

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2016, 08:37:56 AM »
Thank you. I am not trying to be difficult. I also read the DDTC information -- several times.
I posted this article as a result of the apparent confusing information that was presented. I agree wholeheartedly with what you say about the addition of a scope.  And in my opinion, too, that is how it should be. Indeed, that is how it has always been--until this NEW information came out.  But when the NEW DDTC information states, "Installing a scope on a rifle that IMPROVES ACCURACY beyond it's original capabilities" requires registration, then it is very easy for me to understand how a scope is much more accurate than iron sights.  Yes, the gun still shoots the same, but it is more accurate.  And, according to the new information, appears to require registration with a fee.  It sounds like the new DDTC rules are trying to force all gun owners to have many common gun modifications and repairs performed at qualified gun shops rather than perform those at home.  A qualified gun shop would be one in which they have registered as a manufacturer and paid the fee.  Hopefully, others, like you will continue to provide additional valuable information. Thank you for responding.
Anyone else have any thoughts?  It is scary for me to think that if I add a higher capacity, after-market magazine to my firearm, or a high-end scope, then I am breaking the law.

Neighbor

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 215
    • View Profile
Re: New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2016, 09:38:03 PM »
I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over this at this time. I agree with Katfish in that if I put a scope or night sights on, it is to improve my proficiency with the weapon and allows me to shoot it closer to what it is capable of. Also it makes me safer (more accurate) if by chance I have to use it in a defensive situation. I feel that for every lawyer that might go the extreme one way there is another lawyer that believes the other way (that's what keeps them in business).
I doubt there is a problem with Tx Law Shield representing you, but I certainly do not speak for them. If you want them to specifically address this, consider posting this question in the Ask The Lawyer section.

majusa

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2016, 07:45:36 AM »
That was an excellent response. I understand what you and Katfish are saying now.

"if I put a scope or night sights on, it is to improve my proficiency with the weapon and allows me to shoot it closer to what it is capable of".

Sometimes rewording information makes it more understandable. Thank you.  Very good.
One of these days I would like to see what changes to a firearm would improve it BEYOND it's capabilities. Only some type of military weapon, I suppose.
A few days ago, I sent an email to TLS.  It was forwarded to the TLS attorneys.  Currently waiting on a reply. 

To me, the NRA article spoke for itself as being a serious matter.
Other parts in the ITAR and DDTC information still confuse me but it will be good to hear what the TLS attorneys have to say about this.  Thank you guys again.


Neighbor

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 215
    • View Profile
Re: New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2016, 09:23:30 PM »
"beyond it's original capabilities" might be something like buying and installing a new trigger, doing your own trigger job, free floating or glass bedding a rifle barrel. I suppose getting into trouble for something like this is a possibility under the proposed executive action, but I just don't see it as a problem for the average shooter/gun owner. Having said this, I dispise these executive actions that are aimed at changing laws without going through legal processes.

Neighbor

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 215
    • View Profile
Re: New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2016, 05:15:04 PM »
Saw a short piece on this supposed trade agreement yesterday and at the very least it is causing confusion and some concern with many. Be interesting to see if the TLS folks have any thoughts on this - please let us know if they get back with you.

delmetngy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA ar
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2016, 11:10:32 AM »
" A Gun owner is not about being a Gun owner"

To me it is showing that having a gun is not just for personal protection but for freedom to use it for other things such as Hunting and Recreational stuff.
Almost sounds like he's bringing up the indifference's we gun owners have?  The right to bear arms for protection only vs the freedom to bear arms period.

Neighbor

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 215
    • View Profile
Re: New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2016, 07:33:35 PM »
Not sure I understand, delmetngy. Who is "he"

kpropes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: New Gun Control Consequences 07/22/16 NRA article
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2016, 12:25:14 PM »
ITAR pertains to the export of military and duel use items.  I don't think this ruling applies to individual firearms owners.  Look up ITAR and read the purpose of the program.