Author Topic: Shoot or not to shoot?  (Read 707 times)

LLo25

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Shoot or not to shoot?
« on: May 25, 2017, 09:49:08 AM »
So my buddy sent this to me and asked what I would do in this situation.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/woman-jumps-her-car-stop-131751089.html

If this situation occurred, would it be justifiable to shoot the robber(s)? What if he already exited the vehicle to go back to the vehicle with his buddies? Does it matter if I was the victim or if someone else was the victim here?

Katfish

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Re: Shoot or not to shoot?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2017, 01:39:51 PM »

Well based on MY viewing of the video..................AND I am NOT a lawyer

WHERE is the "reasonable expectation of SERIOUS bodily harm or DEATH" ??

1. I did not see a weapon in the want-to-be carjackers hand
2. The ONLY time the Lady (aka duma$$ IMHO) was in serious danger - SHE put herSELF in that position clearly!!

And again if a would be carjacker has given up on the car stealing idea and is running AWAY - again WHERE is the "reasonable expectation of SERIOUS bodily harm or DEATH" ??

do the math!

LLo25

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Re: Shoot or not to shoot?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2017, 07:08:02 AM »
Thanks for your input but if someone was stealing your vehicle from right under you, you'd just let it happen?

Katfish

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Re: Shoot or not to shoot?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2017, 07:33:01 AM »

I did NOT say "one should just let a thief steal your car"...................

But a D.A., or Grand Jury, or a trial jury will more than likely consider "was there a reasonable expectation of serious injury or bodily harm or death"...........when they decide how to "prosecute you or not".

TLS has dozens if not hundreds of Texas Law seminars available for only $5 (to TLS members) where discussions about such a topic take place.

EVERY scenario is different. What struck me when observing the video was that I did not see the would be car thief being armed.


ceejmo

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Re: Shoot or not to shoot?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 06:11:57 PM »
I am not a lawyer but....
I would think that you would have the right to try to stop them using force and once the BG tried to slam the brakes and throw you off the car wouldn't that escalate it to vehicular assault or assault with a deadly weapon or robbery since they are now using the vehicle as a weapon? I think at that point I'd be in fear for my life and be forced to use my firearm.

Then call 911, state my name and the location. Tell them I need police and an ambulance. Tell them a man tried to take my car from me and cause me injury with it. I was in fear for my life and was forced to use my firearm. Then hang up and call the number on the back of my TLS membership card. Follow TLS instructions.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 07:20:03 AM by ceejmo »

TexasLawShield

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Re: Shoot or not to shoot?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2017, 04:50:10 PM »
LLo25,

This is a common question and unfortunately it is a complicated question. In this situation we have to look at Texas Penal Code Section 9.42

Sec. 9.42.  DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.  A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1)  if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41;  and
(2)  when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A)  to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime;  or
(B)  to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property;  and
(3)  he reasonably believes that:
(A)  the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means;  or
(B)  the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Part of the reason this is so complicated is because we are dealing with defense of property instead of acting in self-defense. When we look at property you must remember that there are no presumptions of reasonableness and therefore the question of whether or not you reasonably believed it was immediately necessary to use deadly force will be determined by a jury. That is a scary situation.

The next problem is that it when the statute above lists “burglary” as a crime in which you can possibly respond with deadly force, we don’t know if the statute is only referring to “burglary of a habitation” or if it includes “burglary of a motor vehicle.” If it does not include the motor vehicle, then we are dealing with a theft and deadly force is only potentially an option if the theft occurs during the nighttime.

Assuming both of these hurdles are crossed, a jury must still determine that you reasonably believed that the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means;  or the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.