Author Topic: Statement Card  (Read 5447 times)

birdog

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Statement Card
« on: April 24, 2014, 11:12:21 AM »
Hello,

I'm curious as to the following question:

Would you carry this statement card with you and hand it to the police or could it be interpreted as premeditation? Original card developed from a presentation given by: Massad Ayoob.

Statement Card to Police

•   That man attacked me.
•   I was afraid of great bodily harm including death.
•   I am innocent.
•   I will sign a complaint.
•   The evidence is there.
•   The witnesses (if any) are there.
•   You may have my full cooperation, after I have spoken with my attorney.
•   I have nothing further to say at this time.

This question was prompted by an article in the Feb/March 2014 Concealed Carry magazine by K.L. Jamison, Esq. titled "The First Statement to Police 'Goldilocks Dilemma'".

I called my attorney here in Denver to ask him and he said if the prosecutor ever found out I had contacted him BEFORE and incident...which I was doing at that moment; it could be interpreted as premeditation. So, I suspect me posing this question here might have the same interpretation. Seems as if having US LawShield protection could have the same consequence; yes, no? I am simply trying to proactively protect myself.

So, what’s the answer here...good idea, bad idea?

Thank you in advance,
John
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

TexasLawShield

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Re: Statement Card
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 11:59:43 AM »
Hey John,

Great question. Having pre-printed cards to that effect do seem a little premeditated in that each factual situation is different. These are certainly good and accurate things to say, but having them pre-printed on a card seems a little over the top. Additionally, the invocation of your rights should be made verbally in the case of an incident.

A motivated DA will attempt to use anything and everything against a defendant. It is the lawyer's job to mitigate that as irrelevant. We believe it is certainly not any form of premeditation to consult an attorney generally concerning what the legal process is or what it may entail.

Thanks, and hope that helps.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

birdog

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Re: Statement Card
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 12:33:06 PM »
Thank you. I appreciate the response jmeyer.

I think the reasoning behind the card idea is that in the "heat of the moment", one is not thinking clearly and may not be able to remember all that needs to be said, and/or say too much. Is a person expected to remember all they need to at such a time? Most research suggests that is never going to be reality. Knowing that ahead of time to me indicates reasonable premeditated intelligence of lack of expected clarity, not premeditation of needing the card. Yes, no?

I think police involved in any shooting incident are instructed to not make any statement for 3 days; and of course they are interacting with folks that "have their backs" right from the start. We are NOT so lucky!

Having the US LawShield program might be interpreted as preemptive premeditation. Seems using a weapon in self defense is a "crap shoot" as far as what the outcome may be.

John
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

TexasLawShield

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Re: Statement Card
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2014, 04:11:58 PM »
While the statement card sure sounds convenient, a simple statement such as the example you provided, is not going to be appropriate for every situation.

The most important thing to remember is that you have a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent and to speak with counsel prior to any police interviews. If you are not in a state to recall details, we recommend that you call the TLS emergency hotline. We will be able to walk you through what to say, and more importantly, what NOT to say when the police are on the scene.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

birdog

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Re: Statement Card
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2014, 04:20:57 PM »
OK, thank you...I guess that's as good as it gets. Massad Ayoob said that pleading the 5th wasn't a great idea either. Seems to me it may make sense to simply try to minimize the effects of being a victim and take your chances that way. Somebody is going to get you...the criminal, or the criminal justice system. Either way, you're going to be a victim! The more I research this, the more it seems apparent that there isn't much hope of fully protecting yourself.  :?:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

yabu

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Re: Statement Card
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2015, 08:20:28 AM »
I have worried about this very thing.  Belonging to TLS might be viewed as "preparing to need a lawyer" if you carry.  I have the same worry about going to the pistol range and shooting at targets.  I suppose some DA could say I was practicing shooting someone.  For this reason I never use a silhouette target.  I can see an aggressive DA saying I was practicing being a cold blooded killer.  You want to protect your 2nd amend rights and you want to protect yourself - but sometimes I wonder if it's really worth the trouble you could get into if you ever actually did it.  I read Alan Korwin's book "Texas Gun Owners Guide" and the legal mind field you could find yourself in almost made me quite carrying.  I have TLS and I do carry most of the time; but that doesn't keep me from worrying about it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

birdog

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Re: Statement Card
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2015, 09:49:42 PM »
In reply Yabu, I practice all the time, and shoot USPSA matches every weekend (they use silhouette targets almost exclusively). I am a "C" class shooter in production and limited. Check out USPSA. I think overall, it's best to be prepared and protect yourself. After the fact...it's never going to be easy. Way too many sheep and wannabe victims. If half of the people on your jury "had" to have had experience with violence against them, this would never be a problem. THUS, the myth of "a jury of your peers". Think about that for a bit. At least some of my "peers" would have previously been in some peril.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

DallasCowboy

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Re: Statement Card
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2015, 09:58:11 PM »
How do I obtain a second card?  My reasoning is that if I am ever forced to use my weapon, afterward I will very likely:  
    1.) NOT have time to call the number on the card before the police arrive,
    2.) NOT have access to the TLS card when I get my one phone call - so I won't remember the phone number & account number,
    3.) only be able to call my wife...so she needs to carry a card and call TLS on my behalf.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

birdog

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Re: Statement Card
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2015, 10:56:33 PM »
I added phone # to "favorites" and have TLS Mem # associated with that contact. I filled out all of the contact info. They (TLS) should handle it all from there. Bottom line, ask to be transported to the hospital, and tell popo you will be happy to cooperate AFTER you have had an opportunity to confer with your attorney. Then STFU. Really STFU, you can only hurt yourself by saying anything at this point...PERIOD.

In my mind "being prepared" is no different than "studying" for a test. How can a jury say I was planning on a shooting, just because I might be prepared for one? And, BTW, I never asked to be attacked, that was somebody else's plan. I had just studied for that exam.

Additionally, I run USPSA matches EVERY weekend (seriously, look this stuff up, get educated, I will give you my contact info if that will help you); NOT to be a killer, rather to protect innocent lives, by being a much better master of my tools (guns) and a better steward of my craft (shooting).

Be well, be prepared, be aware. Situational awareness is paramount, know your exits, NEVER sit with your back to the main entrance, EVER!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

MIO

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Re: Statement Card
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2015, 08:27:43 AM »
Quote from: "yabu"
I have worried about this very thing.  Belonging to TLS might be viewed as "preparing to need a lawyer" if you carry.  I have the same worry about going to the pistol range and shooting at targets.  I suppose some DA could say I was practicing shooting someone.  For this reason I never use a silhouette target.  I can see an aggressive DA saying I was practicing being a cold blooded killer.  You want to protect your 2nd amend rights and you want to protect yourself - but sometimes I wonder if it's really worth the trouble you could get into if you ever actually did it.  I read Alan Korwin's book "Texas Gun Owners Guide" and the legal mind field you could find yourself in almost made me quite carrying.  I have TLS and I do carry most of the time; but that doesn't keep me from worrying about it.
I have a fire extinguisher and a lighter does that mean I'm asking to have my house burned down or that I'm an arsonist?
  The lawyer is for "the minefield" and the bashing. You worry bout what you are doing and protect yourself and those you love. Make sure you follow the rules/laws, don't listen to keyboard commandos, gear ninjas and fear mongers and get real training and real practice. "I went to class to make sure I knew what to do, to make sure I didn't hurt the wrong person and to know how to respond". There are people right here reaching out to you.
DAs and AUSAs will say lots of things it's their job. In their neck sideways because I KNOW what I'm supposed to be doing. If this prosecutor is doing this it's because they don't have a good legal case where they can quote black and white law so they resort to character bashing. I have a personal responsibility that is as old as man himself.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

CongoHarry

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Re: Statement Card
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2015, 08:58:55 AM »
Quote from: "yabu"
...You want to protect your 2nd amend rights and you want to protect yourself - but sometimes I wonder if it's really worth the trouble you could get into if you ever actually did it...

 I like me.  A lot.  I want me to continue breathing.   Two words: Mind set.  Learn it.  Love it.  Make it a part of you.  Cross that bridge when you get to it.  In the interim, consider John Farnam's "Layers of Response," and you'll most likely never have to slap leather in your lifetime.  They have served me well in many tight spots around the world.    

Layer One:   Nonattendance.  Avoiding a Fight is Preferable to Winning one.  The best way to handle any potentially injurious encounter is don’t be there. Arrange to be somewhere else. Don’t go to stupid places. Don’t associate with stupid people. Don’t do stupid things. Winning a gunfight, or any other potentially injurious encounter, is financially and emotionally burdensome. The aftermath will become your full-time job for weeks or months afterward, and you will quickly grow weary of writing checks to lawyer(s). It is, of course, better than being dead or suffering a permanently disfiguring or disabling injury, but the “penalty” for successfully fighting for your life is still formidable.
                        “A superior gunman is best defined as one who uses his superior judgment in order to keep himself out of situations that would require the use of his superior skills.”
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »

Neighbor

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Re: Statement Card
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2015, 01:17:11 PM »
I decided some time ago that I can't make all my decisions based solely on what others think. If some might say practicing with my firearm is in preparation for shooting someone, so be it but I am at peace with practicing (any type target) because I know I am doing it to be a better shot so, God forbid, I don't accidentally hit the wrong person if I am forced to act. Practicing not only gives me confidence, it also shows me my limitations so hopefully I don't make a stupid decision in the heat of the moment.
I took a defensive pistol course a couple years ago and am signed up for another this month for these same reasons - if I am going to carry a gun I want to do it right. It is a big responsibility to me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest »